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The luxury travel industry is balancing technology and personalization to enhance the travel experience. AI can improve the booking process and personalize recommendations, but human interaction is still crucial. UX/Dev roles have evolved to prioritize technical skills and user experience, while content planning and prioritization are essential in digital marketing. The industry is also grappling with the challenges of legacy systems, fragmentation, and manual processes, which automation and AI can help address.
Kentaro Oi
Hi, welcome to today's episode of The a word presented by me Kentaro Oi Director of Design at Adludio. This season we're talking to our guests about attention AI and ad tech exploring the burning questions, future trends and challenges surrounding all things creative and advertising. I'm joined today by John Natick. John is the lead developer and web optimization manager at ITC luxury travel Group company that delivers tailor made luxury holidays to the world's most iconic destinations. John, welcome to the show.
John Maddock
Hi, thanks for having me.
Kentaro Oi
Yeah. Thanks for joining us. John, I want to quickly get started, give the listeners some background of what you do and what you what ITC does. And I was wondering if you could just talk about some of the latest projects you're involved with that you're you're excited about ITC? And kind of give us that flavour?
John Maddock
I'm Yeah, sure. I am, we are sort of going through a little bit of a, not really restructure, not restructure, what's the word, we're looking at the marketing department marketing function, taking a completely different fresh perspective on it, and seeing what opportunities that creates to you know, mix up some of our acquisition strategies or, you know, change some of our technologies or some of the partners that we work with. So it's quite an exciting time for us at the moment, because we were, I wouldn't say it's a blank slate kind of thing. But we're, you know, we're coming at it from a let's, you know, let's, let's have a real good look at this and see what see where the opportunities lie and make make changes, if we feel that's the best, that's the best thing for us, or there's some exciting new technologies that we can be making use of?
Kentaro Oi
Definitely, yeah, it's definitely it's a good time for reflection, you know, sometimes we get really caught up in, you know, just just a day to day and, you know, kind of lose sight of the bigger picture. And, you know, when when a change strikes, it's just a nice time to be like, Hey, should we should we improve something? Or, you know, what, is we doing something that we shouldn't be? Or are we missing out on an opportunity? So, I totally hear you on that. I've been through that many times as well. I did want to ask you, regarding ITC in the travel industry, in the luxury travel industry, just in general, you know, through my experience, excuse me, you know, the experience of booking a holiday or, you know, kind of this whole idea of like exploring places and figuring out what I really want to do with my personal time, that whole experience, right feels very, feels very personal. And one could say intimate, because it's just such a such an involved thing, right, emotionally. I'm curious, you know, as, as the lead developer, and as someone that's been on ITC site for a while, can you speak to the role that, you know, the tech and digital touchpoints kind of play in making this, you know, like a seamless experience to someone that is very involved.
John Maddock
I think one of the things that's, that's come in to, say, the application of technology for us over the last few years, and an area that we kind of want to continue to push forward on is personalization. Because like you say, it's an it's an intimate, it's an intimate thing, you know, a lot of our contact is via phone call, you know, especially in those initial early phases, people, some people want to talk to an expert, and get some fresh ideas, you know, and you really understand a destination or potential destination, or some of the things that you can do at a place, you know, so but then carrying that through into digitally, like people use a website that just serves the same thing to the to everybody isn't really speaking to anybody. So, you know, bringing through some of that personalization on the website or within the, the touch points that we have set up. That's been a thing that's given us success over the last last few years and an area that we know we want to we want to push forward on because we are you know, I'm there's many things that we could be doing on that from it's just the case of you. There's only so many hours in a day and so many people in the team so yeah, there's definitely that's one particular area that we feel is a good one for us to continue to develop on.
Kentaro Oi
That's Yeah, it's interesting, because I didn't realise that that phone call like a human to human phone call happens so early in the process, which kind of leads me into my next question was just, you know, we talked so much about the tech inputs, right, where you provide the information, whether it's pricing or availability, just general information regarding the destination. and all that is very passive information, right? It's just kind of on the site and we can explore it if you want. Don't look over it is the the initial phone call is Do you think that's like the first touch point for where like, humans kind of pick up from where like tech leaves off? Do you kind of see that transition? Like very starkly? Or do you feel like that's coming becoming a little bit blurrier? Like, in a way, can some of the things in the phone call be accomplished via the website? Or another digital touch point? How do you kind of see that blend between the human touch points and the tech touch points within this booking process?
John Maddock
So for us, we're one of the travel companies where it's a very tailored product. And so we don't have online book ability. And it's something that we've, you know, had many, many conversation around, around, but because it's such a tailored thing, you know, and it's a, it's a higher price point, typically, it's something where people want to speak to an expert about it. And you know, our team are fantastic at really getting to know you. And what it is that, you know, we have this, we're this sort of saying internally, that luxury is personal, it's going to mean something different to everybody. So, having, getting to know somebody, and having that phone call is a key is a key part in the early phases of sort of, I suppose, building that relationship and building that trust with with an expert, and you know, picking us really, so yeah, in terms of contact methods, obviously, live chart, you know, webform, what you can do, you can do all the things that you can do on on on any website, but for, for us phone calls is probably the largest of the channels that is utilised by people because they want to, they want to, they want to speak to someone. And yeah, we've got, as I say, a fantastic team of very well travelled very well experienced experts that you really, really, really know their destinations. So getting into that conversation. Of course, once you've had that initial conversation, you know, you can take it to email and it can be more sort of easy or streamlined as you as you go along. But yeah, no phone calls for us is a is a key component of that initial contact,
Kentaro Oi
Interesting. The within within the overall process, right, whether it's booking or exploration in any state. I'm curious, do you feel like there's a step that's often overlooked? Is there something that you know, the travel industry as a whole, you know, hasn't really like, made any like innovations or like steps to kind of improve in terms of this whole experience? Like, do you feel like there's an outage that you, there's an opportunity of, like, hey, we can kind of inject something here that make it more efficient? Or maybe even more personalised? Like, do you see any kind of better areas like that?
John Maddock
I'm, wow, it's a great question. I'm not quite sure.
I mean, there are a few areas on the website that you can that you can point to, you know, that where we, where we know people people respond really well to imagery is a very image led thing. So how you deliver that what you deliver, whether that's can be personalised or tailored in a journey. And we know that people is a higher price point, people want that expertise they want, they want to know that they can trust a business right away. So there are you know, what can you do with a web experience that that expresses those key concerns of a consumer immediately? So I it's it's hard to say I don't I don't have a specific but I suppose that possibly quite nicely leads us on to where AI potentially has a role to play. And for me, and that user experience and that getting across those key messages very early on in your browsing journey, and contact or, you know, conversions as you say, but, you know, that'd be that'd be in the right thing at the right time. And for that particular day, everybody wants to jump to a phone call immediately. Some people want to converse via live chat. You know, you've got sort of live chats. Are they AI driven? Are they machine learning driven now where you can sort of predict conversation that I don't think that's Something that we would ever, you know, for us put in a name. It's got to be, it's got to be, it's got to feel like you're talking to an expert to a person. And yeah, so we've, yeah. But yeah, what role? What role do does new AI technologies have to play in enhancing that experience? I suppose?
Kentaro Oi
Definitely, definitely. And I think it is like it's still in, I wouldn't say its infancy. But definitely, like early adoption phase, right, where so many, there's so many vendors that, you know, offer AI services or components that allow you to kind of plug and play AI capabilities. And it's interesting that you mentioned, you know, specifically in the realm of the Chatbot, where you're trying to get information. And, you know, you talk a lot about personalization. But then, so much of AI chatbots feels the exact opposite of that, right, where it's, you know, predetermined answers. And, you know, sometimes you don't even have, it's not even a perfect live chat, it's just, you know, you can kind of click different questions to ask. And I think that can kind of turn people off as well, you know, when it's when it's, especially in a luxury travel space. But I'm wondering, you know, what, what are other whatever implementations, whether it comes from, like, for example, imagery, I think we were just talking about that, where not everyone travels the same way, right? Like people can be interested in a specific destination for its nature, or its, you know, its culture or the food and, you know, is there, do you see a potential there, you know, if you're able to kind of build a profile on a potential customer, like, Can AI kind of go an extra step in like, serve content that's most likely going to resonate? Well, with these people? Like, do you see any kind of opportunities similar to that that can allow for a bit more of like, a seamless experience that kind of runs on its own?
John Maddock
Yeah, definitely. And we've, as I say, We personalization is something that we've been working on and want to progress on. And, yeah, when you're done, you everything you do, every keystroke, it's all it's all tracked. So it's just, you know, data is being accumulated and there is there is a profile of you, and what matters to you. But, actually, it's sort of extrapolating that and making use of that, and pushing that back to you in a useful in a useful way, that's, you know, helping you and and it's sort of building your, your trust in what, in what we do and your confidence in our, in our website, or, or in our, you know, what we do as a business who we are? So yeah, I definitely think that there is we are, that's probably one of our challenges at the moment is that with, with the things we've progressed on, and the software and things that systems that we brought into the business, there's this massive data in the background for making use of that, particularly in a sort of real time way or in it, you know, if we're, we're talking about a holiday is something that you don't just, well, it depends on what it is you're booking, and the urgency involved. But typically, it's quite a research product. So you're, you're coming back, and you're doing the research, and you're can be comparing things, you're going out and looking for user reviews on a resort or you're looking for all these different things. And we, when you're when you're with us, when you're on one of our sites, we're accumulating data, but yeah, making making use of that, and echoing back to you, you know, the we understand what it is you're looking for, and trying to help you to get to that position of this is the right product for you. And that's one of my frustrations, actually, is that there's some areas on our sites where we're just serving the same site, for every for everybody and trying to just be more intuitive or personalised. You know, is, that's, that's an area where I think we can we can make steps forward.
Kentaro Oi
Definitely. Yeah. I mean, if I, you know, I think of how I, you know, if I'm trying to look for a place to go or if we know where we're going, you know, there's a certain level of research and certain type of content that it would research first, definitely first, maybe, you know, I get everything later. But, you know, for me, if it's, you know, basically if it's based on food, you know, looking up the best restaurants or, you know, the places that are the most walkable that have the most like concentration shops, and for other people it might be like the daytime excursion. So you know, so I think you can kind of suss out, like what these certain peoples are interested in, and then be able to, you know, figure out kind of build that profile, like I said, and use those data points, right, that that are so rich, but then sometimes kind of get left behind, and allow you to kind of create, you know, a more seamless experience. Do you feel like, I guess, if you can speak on behalf of like, the travel industry or luxury travel industry, do you feel like the industry is, like ahead of the curve a little bit behind the curve, like, in terms of, you know, the leverage and use of data? Do you feel like there's a lot more that can be done? Do you feel like there's, you guys are making good headway? Like, how do you feel like you kind of fit within other industries in the use of data?
John Maddock
I think travel, in terms of its adoption of technology and its processes, is not the quickest adopter to move to new things. You know, I've been with the business sort of approaching eight years now. And some of the processes and the early days very manual. And, you know, the types of roles that we employ. Now, the more technical in nature to those roles just didn't exist in the business five, well, 567 years ago. So things have things have for us massively moved on over the last few years. But yeah, you know, I think travel is sometimes a little bit late to the party. And there's the you know, there's sometimes very good reasons for that. There are systems in place for, say, booking flights, confirming reservations, there are there are certain things in there that are, you know, legacy systems, there isn't always a nice new method to do some of the logistical things around creating that package. But then, yeah, there are other areas where, yeah, we are the things that I've seen accomplished in the business over the last few years are fantastic. And we move it's such such a such a quick pace, trying to try and get up to date, and modernise in all the areas, areas that we can, and leverage new technologies or improved technologies. And, you know, looking at our who our suppliers, r&r, from a technology perspective, and always looking to be making improvements. So on the one hand, I do feel really, really positive about all the things that we're, we've done in the time that I've worked here. But yeah, on the other hand, I would say that, you know, travel is, I don't think I don't think I think few people might agree with me on that. It's not the quickest adopter of technology or changed, you know? Yeah. So I don't want to speak on behalf of shuttle sector, but I think I think some people would know, would would agree with that. Definitely.
Kentaro Oi
I'm curious, we've been talking so much about, you know, like the consumer facing side, right. And, you know, the booking process and gathering all that information. But you raised an interesting point, just now regarding the back end of that, right, like the operational side, and, you know, maybe how back can hold back the industry a bit where I think you've mentioned legacy systems, you know, there's so much that kind of goes in the background of making a booking happen, right, because it's the hotels that also have to speak to your site. And then it's also the airlines that, you know, kind of all have to match up, kind of create this perfect itinerary. I think everyone can kind of relate it out, right? Where, you know, you finally figure out where you want to go, and then you now get to pick this flight that works perfectly for your, for your dates. And then you know, if it's a hotel might be easier. But if you're trying Airbnb, then that's also another, you know, another step, and it's all so fragmented in a way that if you feel like, I guess I'm curious, you know, is that is that is that an issue that are a problem that, you know, some kind of automation or AI can potentially fix that something that speaks to each, you know, input and allows it to kind of come together? A bit more seamlessly without feeling too like, you know, fragmented and a little too scrappy. Like, what are your What are your thoughts there on the back end experience?
John Maddock
I suppose I've thought more about the kind of front end experience not so much the back the back end, obviously, I'm in the part of, you know, I'm constantly thinking about the consumer and what it is what it is they're seeing. So the kind of logistical backend side of it isn't is not something where I spend a huge amount of a huge amount of time but you know, some of that book booking complexity is, you know, to be to be fair on avoidable if you have quite an ambitious itinerary and you want to be you No taking a helicopter to this place or transferring from one place to this smaller island. And, you know, there are there are parts of the parts of that package creation, which is why you would want to speak to an expert. I remember an example where someone had to have a Diet Coke on their yacht. And so they, you know, and there was a mistake, and so we had to get that back to get that product to that to that person in that place. Because it was, you know, it was important, it was an important thing to them. And, yeah, so, you know, helicopter, blue in the right, Coca Cola to the, to the local, yeah, to the local dark. And then it was say, there are logistical elements that, that, yeah, I'm not sure if that connectivity of systems exists in order to in order to, you know, facilitate that supply chain. But then, but then again, I suppose the, I suppose there are, there are elements where, you know, as I say, everything, that's a data point, what data is being captured is an opportunity for you to make use of that data and to connect that data. And if the, if there are patterns in that data, that allow different decisions to be made, you know, that improve the experience for a person, then. Then, you know, who wouldn't? Who wouldn't want to make those who who wouldn't want to be looking at that data and looking at those opportunities, I can't, you know, if you if you, if you have a delay, for example, in your journey, and it has a knock on effects with a transfer also, or something, these things are, these things are quite stressful for people. So you can help it's and you want the holiday experience to be something where positive memories were You were you switching off from the worry of, of day to day logistics, you know, you want to say this, but as a, as a father. Don't ever switch off from that stuff. Nurses things a holiday for me, it's just transferred from one type of work to another type of work. But yeah, you know, you there are things that can, that can be very stressful for people. And anything that smooth and some process out and reduces the risk of possible complication, or just even if there is going to be some delay is able to have a knock on effect and stagger something else from occurring. So I think, yeah, that as much as I pointed to manual parts of the supply chain, I definitely, I definitely think wherever there's data, and wherever there's, there's wherever there's data, there's, there's patterns, there's behaviours, and there's things that you can capitalise on. But yeah, as I say, I'm more on the kind of consumer facing.
Kentaro Oi
Yeah, no, I love insight. I think. I think there's, there's all great points. And yeah, I think there's definitely, you know, it's definitely a stressful thing. For sure. I think that's inherently people kind of go into it, but that feeling, and then, you know, if, if the if the side experience, or just their experience in general, doesn't kind of alleviate it, you know, it can kind of create, like a negative interaction and experience for sure. So, gonna avoid that at all costs. A couple of questions ago, you mentioned how similar like the roles are changing a bit on the on the development side? And I guess I'm curious, you know, this is something I asked like a lot of people in terms of their discipline and how automation and AI have begun to kind of impact that. And one of the ways I asked that question is regarding the skill set, right. You mentioned it where, you know, maybe more, some of the roles might have been more technical, but, you know, with the advancements in emerging tech, kind of taking care of a lot of the groundwork, you know, some of those skill sets or the necessary skill sets for for the roles you need, can change a bit, you know, there's a bit of an evolvement of, you know, what, what is integral, what kind of ways of thinking are more important now? I certainly see it on the design side as someone that's a bit more on the creative side, but curious for you on the engineering side or the development side, Have you have you seen Have you seen that type of trend within roles or, you know, in the types of roles that you're trying to hire? Do you feel like there's there's been a difference of like skill set throughout the years.
John Maddock
I'm, yeah, yeah, things of things that, you know, one example would be that when I first started this job UX was just a concept that people talked about, as opposed to a really integral part of how you build things. And now, it's, that's an area in which, where we're constantly trying to improve our capability in that in that area. And, you know, the smallest, the smallest is just, you know, it was seen as seen as a luxury. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't an essential part of the production process or the creation process. But now Now, it's like, it's, it's, it's an integral, an integral part of that, and this because the universe smallest, this, as I'm sure, you know, the smallest design choice or you can have, can be the difference with something actually, you know, function performing well, or are really not performing expectations at all. So that's, that's one area in which it's been, it's been interesting. You know, and I would say that people are, people now are, I don't know, this can go one or two ways, you can have people that are like myself, skilled in lots of areas, because there are so many. So many practices that you have to bring into your role. So I work. I don't just build websites anymore, I have to build performing websites, I have to build websites that sort of fulfil the need of the person coming to them, that deliver on sort of the brand guidelines and expectations that offer content. And it's actually useful for people in a way that is it's, it's quick, it's satisfies what the search engines want of it as well. And so these, these things that were typically kind of separate areas come together and just see, like, I don't see a collection of code I, or something that's just just purely technical in nature, I see something that is a user experience it is it's trying to perform in various different areas and bringing that together, and having people that can have that awareness to not just be a developer, but to understand what they're developing and why. You know, and having that sort of team dynamic of people with, you know, maybe a core skill, but actually skills or understanding across a few different areas to help, you know, build, you know, better, better products. That's, that's, that was, you know, back in the back when I started doing programming. years ago, now, I was just you were just locked in a dark cupboard. And just, you just did what you were, you know, this is what we this is what we need, you know, this is when we need it for and there was no, you know, you just did that, and there was no conversation around your wing vacuum. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, so yeah, there's this, there's been, everything's changed massively over the last few years that those are just a couple of areas in which I've noticed. Change.
Kentaro Oi
Yeah, I think that's great, though. I mean, you know, ultimately, when you start to prioritise UX, that that's only going to improve the end product, right, like you said, and I think if you're thinking strategically about the decisions, and not just kind of running with what has worked previously, or what you think works, but it's backed by research, you're testing it. There's, there's so much that can go into that to create something, creating something that's robust and actually useful for the for the end user. So I love that shift. You know, I mean, I see the same thing in design as well, where, you know, we can't just think about the branding message, like it has to resonate with the target, it has to if it's interactive, it has to make sure that, you know, from a UI standpoint, everything will kind of make sense and as in as easy to use. So I love seeing that trend across different disciplines as well. So I think that's, that's great. A couple a couple last last couple more questions for you. And I want one area that I really want to talk about, especially with the things that you manage is is content. And I'm curious, you know, within within the booking process, we're especially the early exploration stage right for users. Content is just so important, because that's kind of you know, what helps you make the decisions that you know that that's going to last you the duration of the holiday. So So, talk to me about, you know, your your process of content planning on some of the ITC sites. How do you think about content hierarchy? And yeah, just talk to us about that. Because I know there's a lot to manage there. But I'm sure there's research that in terms of like, what's what's most important, what's most actionable, obviously, have to think about performance as well. So talk to us about like, how that mix mixture kind of wraps up into your content planning.
John Maddock
So it's, I look at it from, from a quite technical perspective, what's the health of this website? What's this? You know, what does this domain look like? What's the, you know, navigational structure of this, and then we've got our SEO manager and our content manager. And so I guess you get multiple kind of heads together. And, you know, our SEO manager feeds in kind of keyword opportunities where, you know, for not from the existing site, and from also, you know, competitor sites or general research on that front. And then you've got the content manager, who will bring perhaps more trend information into it, and, and expand on kind of topically, what we've what we've got going on, and where we where we could go with that. So you get you get those different, I'm quite from a programming background. So for me, it's kind of it, it's got a very technical origin, to my thought process. And when you when you bring in the creativity of the kind of wider marketing team, you you get to a, we get we get to quite a healthy conversation around around what it is we're doing for different for different brands. But, you know, if you look at say, inspiring travel, for example, we've had fantastic success over the last sort of two years. Well, you know, there's been good things that happen prior to that, but it's specifically in the last couple of years. We've taken, we've really gone for it on the content front, we creating that informational content that's very useful for people and we get like, really good engagement time on on our on our content, you saw, we're obviously talking about things like you say you've mentioned food, that's sort of you want to go away, you want to eat nice food, you want to have nice experiences, go to places or do things that discover things, you know, so. So yeah, informational content for us, particularly on on the aspiring brand is something that a lot of effort has gone in over the last couple of years. And it's and it's really, it's really shown in that the traffic that is generated. And but yeah, you're talking to a technical person. So in terms of creativity, I've got that from a technical problem solving kind of perspective. Yeah. But, you know,
Kentaro Oi
I mean, all those aspects, though, right, like, bird can't possibly function with, with just one mindset, you know, looking at it. So I think that's, that's equally as important, if not more, to be honest.
John Maddock
One thing, one thing, this might be slightly random to add, but, you know, we're, you know, we're sort of, well, I thought we'd talk more AI today, actually, we've not really scratched the surface of that. But on the on the AI front, when everyone first got access to chat GPT, there was like this initial excitement and there was this initial kind of what does this mean is my job, no longer going to be a job. So but then the more people have kind of played around with that, and I know, there's, there's other AI's, you've got Gemini now. So there are there are other utilities out there that people can make use of. But one of the things I noticed with my usage of chat GPT was that that's actually a really helpful thing to content writing, as opposed to it is to doing it for you. I think you can, you could use it to do it for you, but I don't think you would get things that are written particularly, you know, the it wouldn't be the nicest reading experience or necessarily carry through that kind of tone of voice for your brand. But in terms of using it as kind of a content research tool to do some of that foundational stuff and bring you know different things in for you to then be able to create something I've personally used it I outside of my role and inside my role, and it's actually been such a we've been leveraging things like that has been super helpful and insightful. And, you know, fun actually, because you can, you can bring in different research. And it, it speeds up that process. So you're able to create something that goes beyond what you might normally have the time to do. So. Yeah, that's just, that's just been a that's just been a fun. I can I continue every day to ask Chat GPT things that, like, future football predictions and things like that I continue every day to test the limits of what it can give. Give me
Kentaro Oi
I absolutely love that. And I'm glad you really brought that up. Because, you know, I think that's, that's one of the ways we talked about AI is, you know, it's not necessarily the be all end all solution, right? I think, especially the way you use it, you're using it, it's a bit of a tool, where you know, the capabilities, you know, it's not, we can't take that end result and run with it, it just kind of has to feed into your overall process. Right. And it's, you know, it can replace a lot of the a lot of the chunk in the in the upfront where it's, you know, I think you're using it a bit more for research. But I think I think those implementations are always really interesting to hear about, for sure. And, yeah, I think that kind of like, leads into my final question, which is, you know, the travel industry, you know, post pandemic is really, from my perspective, it's, you know, there's a lot of people, it's kind of trying to play catch up with some of the last year's coming out of it, and just such a huge boom, but, you know, for you looking forward, both as someone that works in industry, but hopefully get to take a vacation soon, I know you have young children, but like, both as a consumer and as someone that is, you know, part of the industry inherently How will like what excites you about the travel industry? And, you know, do you see emerging tech options and opportunities that can really mingle and really bring that luxury travel industry to the next level? Like, what? Where do you see it kind of going and what excites you about it?
John Maddock
My job has changed so much over the years. And yeah, you mentioned the pandemic, which was, which was, I don't want to say the word there were positives to be taken from it, you know, because you, you had to look at what you were doing and reassess, and, and our technology efforts, we're moving in the right direction, but that really, really expedited the, you know, the, our application of technology and our, you know, desire to grow on maturity in some areas. So, just, generally speaking, my job is just constant development and change. And, you know, trying to keep up with travel, travel is, is trend based to an extent, you know, what you sell one year isn't necessarily what you're going to sell the next year, because people constantly want to, well, not constantly, but people want to experience new things to different things. And, you know, this is a big world to explore, there's lots to do, there's lots of places to eat, which is
so it the pace of, of one, not the pace, but it's I've never worked in a job or an industry or company before, where myself, and I've seen it around me as well, everyone, you know, really enjoys the place that they work and the thing that they do, the thing that they create for people because it's probably one of the best uses of your time, right, going going on holiday, you know, being with your family or your friends or by yourself if you've had enough. So, you know, it's probably one of the most exciting products that there is. And so for me, everyday is everyday is it's there's always new opportunities out there. And as I say, we're looking at better personalization software, better software for to make our UX processes and our testing more robust and to, to, you know, continually opt summarise what it is we're doing, and get to useful enhancements for people that are performing and helping quicker, with less frustration on all sides. And then you've got things, you add something like AI to the mix that can come along and create some of that marketing collateral for you. And, and, you know, an iterate upon that. When you when you add all of those different things to the mix, I think, you know, I'm working in a place where I can't I can't see me. I can't see me leaving anytime soon, because everything is just constantly changing for the better.
Speaker 1
Yeah, well, that. Great. Well, it's, it's fantastic to hear, it looks like you're making, you know, a lot of waves in the industry. And I agree, it is, it is a very, you know, it's a very personal thing. Like we kind of started off saying and it's a it's a very positive thing. And I think it's an experience that if you're able to kind of make even better, and kind of create such a solid foundational relationship with the brand and the consumer, then, you know, it's, it's, it's gonna be it's it can't go wrong there. Great. Well, John, thank you so much for your time today. And a pleasure speaking to you. I learned a tonne about the industry and thanks for sharing your insights.
John Maddock
Thanks so much. Enjoyed it. Thank you. All right.
Kentaro Oi
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